Karen Kondazian’s career as an actor, writer and producer is as diverse as it is long. At the age of eight she was chosen to be one of the infamous children on Art Linkletter’s Kids Say the Darndest Things. The opportunity to miss school during tapings was all it took for Karen to abandon her life’s goal of becoming a CIA spy and focus on acting.
She completed her schooling at San Francisco State College, The University of Vienna and The London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts (LAMDA), after which she began her career in New York. Her first professional work was in the award winning production of Michael Cacoyannis’ The Trojan Women at the Circle in the Square Theatre.
Karen is the author of the bestselling book The Actors Encyclopedia of Casting Directors, with a foreword by Richard Dreyfuss. Her long running weekly column, “Sculpting Your Own Career” appeared in L.A. STAGE, BackStage, and DramaLogue.
Kondazian is also a multi-award winning novelist. Her debut novel, The Whip, won the USA News Award for Best Historical Fiction and also the National Indie Excellence Award for Best Western.
The Karen Kondazian Interview
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The Whip by Karen Kondazian
As a young woman in Rhode Island, she fell in love with a runaway slave and had his child. The destruction of her family drove her west to California, dressed as a man, to track the killer.
Charley became a renowned stagecoach driver for Wells Fargo.
She killed a famous outlaw, had a secret love affair, and lived with a housekeeper who, unaware of her true sex, fell in love with her.
Charley was the first known woman to vote in America in 1868 (as a man). Her grave lies in Watsonville, California. Order The Whip now.
Karen Kondazian Transcript
Tim Knox: Hi everyone, welcome back in to Interviewing Authors. Karen Kondazian is my guest today. Karen is the author of one of my favorite books, The Whip. The Whip is inspired by the true story of a woman named Charlotte Parkhurst who, in the late 1800’s, went to the old west and lived out her life as a man, who was also a stagecoach driver for Wells Fargo — just a fascinating story.
Karen is fascinating in her own right. I’m sure you’ve seen Karen in the movies, or on television. She’s had quite the career as an actress, writer, producer, she’s been on fifty-some-odd television shows, been in the movies, was quite a muse for Tennessee Williams. They met when she was doing the play The Rose Tattoo and Williams was so impressed with her they became friends and he gave her carte blanche to produce any of his works during his lifetime.
So, quite the career for Miss Kondazian and it’s far from over. She continues to write and act. This is a wonderful interview. She is so nice, so forthright, and talks about how she stumbled upon the story of Charlotte Parkhurst and developed that into, again, one of my favorite books. So, grab on to the reins, let’s get started, here’s my interview with Karen Kondazian, author of The Whip, on Interviewing Authors.
Tim Knox: Karen Kondazian, welcome to the program.
Karen Kondazian: Thank you, Tim. I’m happy to be here.
Tim Knox: It is our pleasure having you here. For those in our audience who are not familiar with your work, give us a little background.
Karen Kondazian: I started out at eight years old on the Art Linkletter show. I don’t know if people are old enough to know what that show was but it was a show with little children. They had it first on the radio and then it was on television. They would take little obnoxious or precocious children from the age of six to eight and interview them. I was chosen and I remember Art Linkletter saying to me, “So what do you want to do when you grow up?” And I said, “Well I wanted to be a spy. My mother used to take me to a lot of spy movies but now I want to be an actor.” “Why?” “Because I get to miss school, like today, and you give me all the free grilled cheese sandwiches and orange sherbet I want.” They gave us lunch. “So that’s the life for me.” He laughed and said, “Oh good,” and you know I never wavered.
Tim Knox: So you were bitten by the show biz bug pretty early in life.
Karen Kondazian: Eight years old.
Tim Knox: What was so appealing about it?
Karen Kondazian: Missing school. It’s a big bug. Anyway so I then proceeded to… suddenly around 10 years old I got very shy but the acting saved me. I got into a lot of school plays and then suddenly when I was in high school I was doing in San Francisco – my mother remarried and we went to San Francisco and I got to do some professional theater in San Francisco as a kid. It just continued until when I graduated. I went to the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts and studied and went to New York, became a member of the Actors Studio, one of my dreams, and off-Broadway then came to L.A. I started playing a lot of gypsies and psychics and Greek ladies and Italian ladies on television.
Tim Knox: Was that because of your look? You do have that dark, Greek look about you.
Karen Kondazian: Well you know the long, dark, curly hair, especially then. That was lovely. Until about seven years ago I was very lucky to make a living out of it. Then all of a sudden when my mama passed away, she loved reading and books and I thought I’d love to dedicate something to her. I’d always been interested. When I was in my 20’s I remember I was reading Cosmopolitan Magazine and I read an article about wild women of the west. There was this woman who had lived her life as a man in the Old West for 30 years. I remember thinking about it. How in the world had she carried this off? In those days all the guys hung out with each other, the stagecoach drivers. Excuse me but they peed together and they did things like that together. It’s like how in the world was she not discovered? So finally I thought I should sit down and try to answer some of those questions for myself and see if a book could come of this woman. So I did sit down and it took me six years and 27 drafts and finally there was this book, The Whip. By the way, The Whip is not about anything to do with sadomasochism which a lot of people think it is. Whips were stagecoach drivers. That’s what they were called.
Tim Knox: Thank you for clearing that up for us. Now this book is garnering all kinds of awards. Did you have any idea what nerve you were going to strike with this book and how well it was going to be received?
Karen Kondazian: No I didn’t actually. In fact it’s a no-no really to do a Western genre book. It’s not really a Western by the way. It happens to take place in the Old West. But to do a Western genre book there’s just a little niche of people who read those books. It’s kind of a little self-destructive to do that but because the woman was so fascinating I couldn’t resist. It’s interesting, a lot of people write on Amazon in their reviews, “I’m not a big Western reader but my friend told me to read this book and I did and I loved it.” It’s sort of more historical fiction.
Tim Knox: I think one of the things that really caught me about the book is that the Old West is the setting but it very much is a book about this woman, Charlotte Parkhurst, who passed herself off as a man in what was very much a man’s world. What I find interesting is this is such a good book and this is your debut book, right?
Karen Kondazian: Well actually there was a little part of my life where I was a journalist for something called Backstage. It’s a newspaper for actors and directors and so on. I did interviews with people. Everybody was asking me to put together all my casting director and director interviews into a book. So there is a non-fiction book that I’ve written called The Actor’s Encyclopedias of Casting Directors but you’re absolutely right – this is my debut novel. On the outside of the book it says a novel inspired by a true story. So I’ve taken all the facts about Charley Parkhurst and then what I did was I went to Watsonville where she’s buried, Watsonville, California. That’s near San Francisco, Santa Cruz, that area. I interviewed a couple of people whose great-grandparents apparently knew her. I got some interesting stories from them that are not in history. If it’s not proven I call it a rumor and so what I did was I fictionalized then the rumors and made it into a novel inspired by a true story.
Tim Knox: Let’s talk a little about Charlotte or Charley Parkhurst. How did she end up in the Old West and how did she end up on top of a stagecoach?
Karen Kondazian: Alright, some of this is absolutely true and then some of it is the rumors novelized but I’ll tell you quickly the reason why I believe she went to California. By the way, I transgress a little here – the New York Times wrote an obituary about her when she died which I have in the back of the book. They asked for relatives or friends or anyone to come claim her body when she died and no one did. She was put in an orphanage at a very young age – that’s true – in the East, grew up in an orphanage and then in my story she becomes very close to a young man in the orphanage. She falls in love with an African-American runaway slave and has his baby. Her family is destroyed. She puts on men’s’ clothes and did indeed take a ship around the horn to California and became one of the great stagecoach drivers of Wells Fargo. In fact if you go to the Wells Fargo museum in San Francisco there’s a little niche, a little room about her. She was the first woman apparently, first known woman to vote as a man for General Grant and she killed the famous outlaw, Sugarfoot, who robbed a stagecoach one too many times. So she was amazing and when she died they were getting her ready for her funeral and the doctor said, “Oh my God. Our great Charley Parkhurst is a woman and has had a child.”
Tim Knox: How old was she when she died and what year was that?
Karen Kondazian: Well she was born in 1812. She died in 1879 so she was 68.
Tim Knox: So she had a fairly long life for the period, especially for what she had been through.
Karen Kondazian: Absolutely right. People mostly died in their late 50’s, early 60’s you were really old in those days.
Tim Knox: Do we know what happened to the child she had?
Karen Kondazian: No, no. Much of her life is a mystery. That’s why I wanted to fill it in. I filled in a love story. That’s what I felt was appropriate with the rumors I was given.
Tim Knox: Are there existing pictures of her? Do you have any idea what she might have looked like?
Karen Kondazian: No, nothing. There are some sketches of her. Now we don’t know if those sketches are of people who actually saw her face and sketched it. I found them through research and there’s no background on where the sketches came from. She was kicked in the eye at one point by one of her horses so she was actually blind in one eye and still rode stagecoach.
Tim Knox: This was really a tough woman. She had to be to survive the times, much less ride on top of a stagecoach and deal with the men of the time.
Karen Kondazian: Listen those guys, it was such a hard time that most of them were drunks and she hardly ever drank. Well she was a big drinker off the coach but she never drank on the coach. That’s why she never had any accidents.
Tim Knox: That’s why she never fell off the stagecoach.
Karen Kondazian: Yes that’s exactly why.
Tim Knox: Sounds like this was a fun book to write. Was it also a difficult book to write at times given the story?
Karen Kondazian: I’ll tell you two things. One, for you writers out there, I think you’ll know what I mean. I write very much late at night when it’s very quiet and I’m tired. Tiredness helps me as both an actor and as a writer because you relax and you don’t struggle. Much of your left brain goes out the window. You’re generally working from your instincts. I felt many times that I was channeling her. It’d be very funny. I’d be writing and suddenly I’d stop and say, wow, where did that come from? I visited her grave many times and spoke to her and said, “Please help me with this book.”
Tim Knox: I’ve had a lot of authors tell me that they get so close to their characters that they can actually hear them speaking to them. It sounds like that was almost the case here with you and Charley.
Karen Kondazian: Oh absolutely, then the difficult part of the book was looking up with research I had to look up every word that every character said to find out if indeed the word was used at that time. For instance, the word ‘okay’ that we just throw around all the time didn’t come to be until the mid-1800s. People think it came from the American Indians and it was a sound that when you traded things with them, it sounded like okay and so that word came to be. There were many words that I couldn’t even use.
Tim Knox: That was one of the things I was going to ask you about. When you write a book like this you have to do an incredible amount of research, not only to get the location and the clothing and the other matters of time established but you’ve also got to think of how did they talk back then? People don’t talk now like they did in the 1800s and that must have been exhausting doing all that research.
Karen Kondazian: Yes in fact if you read the obituary it’s very Victorian and it’s a little difficult to read and words were almost English sounding. I didn’t use that kind of English because we were in the West and it was a different kind of shortcut in their speaking. I got a lot of criticism from people about the swearing in the book. They didn’t swear! Are you kidding? Oh my God. I don’t know about anybody who’s watched Deadwood but every other word was a profoundly large swear word.
Tim Knox: It’s funny that you used Deadwood as an example because I remember when that show came out there was a lot of controversy over the amount of cuss words, specifically the “F” word and people just found it almost difficult to believe that they talked like that in the Old West when in truth most of those words probably came out of the Old West. Speaking of Deadwood, I also found it was really cool that you used the actress that played Calamity Jane, Robin Weigert.
Karen Kondazian: Yes, Robin.
Tim Knox: When I started reading your book she immediately came to mind as someone who would be perfect to play Charley in the movies. How did she come to be the one to do the narration for the audio book?
Karen Kondazian: Of all people she loved the book and she said yes that she would narrate it. It’s beautifully done. She did a brilliant job. She was the only voice in it so she played every character. She was amazing. Yeah, a lot of people love to take the book on a road trip. I’m always hearing, “Oh we took your book on a trip with us.”
Tim Knox: I know there are many sides to Charley. What was the one thing that really stuck out in your mind, the one thing that struck you about this woman?
Karen Kondazian: I would say first of all that she was able to be so alone in her secret. I don’t know too many people who would be able to survive not having the kind of… I mean she had friendships of other whips but, you know, they didn’t know who she was and she had to keep her secret all the time. Probably she was very closemouthed. That would have been very hard I think.
Tim Knox: That had to be a really lonely existence for her.
Karen Kondazian: Yes. The theme of this book is forgiveness ultimately. Sometimes I ask this question. I’ll ask it of you, Tim. If someone destroyed horribly everybody and everything that you loved in this world, could you forgive them?
Tim Knox: I think that would be a very hard thing for anyone to forgive.
Karen Kondazian: Even one person and if you couldn’t forgive them how far would you go?
Tim Knox: You’re referring to the people that got involved in her life when she was the young girl and got pregnant by the runaway slave.
Karen Kondazian: Yes when she lost her family. The book is really about revenge and retribution and forgiveness. How does one deal with this kind of wound, this kind of loss? In those days you could take guns but to find the person was another story if they disappeared into the mass of those men of California. It was the Gold Rush time so every man in the world was headed for California.
Tim Knox: It is a very serious book but I think you do a great job of bringing humor into it as well. Talk about some of the lighter moments in the book.
Karen Kondazian: This very funny, wonderful moment in it. I realized it was a grim story and so I had to find a lot of… there’s a whole chunk of the famous stagecoach rules of Wells Fargo that the poor passengers had to adhere to like one being yes you can use chewing tobacco but if you spit, do not spit against the wind.
Tim Knox: You’d think that would be common sense. Let’s talk about other women of the time because Charley was certainly not alone in pretending to be a man. There were documented cases of other women who pretended to be a man to survive. Really I would assume at the time women were very much second class citizens, were they not?
Karen Kondazian: That’s a good question because women could not have dreams then. You had two choices – you could be a wife or a prostitute. If you had a little education and could read you could be a teacher. To answer what you just said, they found out much later on that over 500 women fought in the Civil War dressed as men.
Tim Knox: Really?
Karen Kondazian: Yes. Of course in those days you didn’t have to get an exam to get into the Army. They found bodies, female bodies in men’s clothes with the guns beside them. Some of them actually got home safely and went home and had families. That was about it. Oh boy, you were in trouble if you were a woman because you’d get married, you’d have 12 children or so, 5 of them dying maybe if you didn’t die in the process and then those were children to help with the farm.
Tim Knox: I think that’s such an interesting point because families in that time did have a lot of children because the children were basically free labor on the farm.
Karen Kondazian: That’s exactly right.
Tim Knox: Knowing what you know now from your research of women in the 1800s, how far have women come? If Charley was alive today would she be happy with the way women’s rights and that sort of thing have moved along or would she be a little disappointed?
Karen Kondazian: Well we’re still struggling, yes. We’re not struggling and having to disguise ourselves as men to get positions as maybe even Hillary Clinton will prove but look, America is the only country or one of the few countries that hasn’t had a woman president yet. Women are still not paid… it’s the boring story that we all hear over and over. Women still don’t get the money that men get for the same position. They still have to struggle and many times they have to give up having a family because having a family in many minds, if you’re a CEO of a company then you’re not going to put your whole focus on the job.
Tim Knox: And if you are a strong woman, especially in business, many times you are seen as a bitch.
Karen Kondazian: Yes you’re exactly right. If you lose your temper, if you tell men off you are a bitch. What do we call men who are strong and tells people off? He’s strong. He’s strong and he’s powerful and we respect him many times, unless he’s silly about it.
Tim Knox: You’ve done so many creative things over the course of your life with movies, television and the theater. How is writing a book different? How is that experience different from everything else you’ve done? What’s the hardest part?
Karen Kondazian: Being alone. The theater and film you’re an ensemble; you’re part of a large group of people making art together. Writing of course is… what is it that Hemmingway said? Someone asked him, “How do you write?” He said, “Oh it’s easy. You just sit down in front of a typewriter and bleed by yourself.” It’s that kind of life and I guess that’s why in the past there have been so many alcoholics and drug addicts who have been famous writers. To write you have to enjoy being alone and being with your story.
Tim Knox: I’ve had several writers tell me that writing is a lonely business, although when I write I have to have that alone time. I can’t write in a crowd. Did that bother you, the solitude of writing?
Karen Kondazian: Well I didn’t find it lonely because I’m an only child but for people who are used to family and a lot of socializing it’s a shock. My book has been kind of a little bit of a… how can I say this? There’s been so much serendipity around it. When I finished it finally, as I say six years later, I went oh I’m finished. Now what do I do? I have to publish it. I didn’t really want to self-publish it, only because I don’t know. I mean listen, there are some brilliant books out there that are self-published, extraordinary, but I just had that kind of old-fashioned for my mama’s sake I wanted it to kind of be by a company. So I thought okay it’s finished and now I have to learn how to do this. What is it? It’s called a proposal, whatever. I didn’t even know the name of it what you have to send to publishers about your book to see if they’re interested in buying it, or an agent.
Well this is what happened. A week later I’m sitting there staring into space and I get an email from a friend I hadn’t heard from in over 30 years in Transylvania.
Tim Knox: Hang on, let me get this right. You got an email from someone you hadn’t talked to in 30 some odd years who’s now living in Transylvania.
Karen Kondazian: Transylvania. Okay, he’s living in Transylvania. He’s very peculiar anyway and many, many years ago I was friends with Tennessee Williams and this man was a great photographer and came and took photographs of Williams and me when he came to see me in a play called The Rose Tattoo. This man wrote to me from Transylvania asking me if I would call a publisher who was wanting to use a photograph of Tennessee that he had taken at that party, that performance, for a book cover. I wrote back and said I’ll take care of it. I called the man and handled it. He said so what do you do? I told him and he said, “Your books sounds interesting. Send me a couple of chapters.” I did and a few days later he told me to send the book. I did and a week later he said, “We’d like to buy it.” I said, “You would?”
Tim Knox: So your long lost friend from Transylvania ended up getting you a publisher.
Karen Kondazian: Yes. There are these what are called boutique publishing houses in the East. They’re small publishing houses, real publishing houses but they’re smaller, so it’s harder sometimes to get into because they have a very specific genre of kinds of books that they like. So he took it on and it got published very easily. I still haven’t learned how to do this proposal that you send to people. I just would like to say to people who are listening who are writers – there are all these mysterious ways that… I’m going to say this, a little metaphysical. I believe that if underneath the intention as you write your book, if the intention is for other people meaning yes of course you want the book to make money and of course people want to become famous; that’s a given. But if underneath the book is an intention that… mine was oh please may this book inspire and transform people and may it teach them to put their arms – particularly woman – put their arms around life. I would like to say I got letters from all over the United States from women, one in particular that always touches me when I think of it, of a woman who said, “I lost my husband. My son has tried to commit suicide. We’ve lost our house. I hang out at the library a lot. I saw your book in the new book section. I liked the cover. I read it and I’m writing to you because I want to thank you for giving me courage. If she could live her life the way she did, I certainly can too.” So it is that kind of pleasure that I am so grateful that the book is there.
Tim Knox: That had to make you feel really good because it validates all of the hard work that you put into the book but it also validates Charley’s life to a degree. If a woman can be inspired by her story and your telling of the story, that has to make you feel good. That validates everything you’ve done.
Karen Kondazian: Yes. If indeed seriously just one woman, that one woman’s life had changed, it was important to write the book. So what I guess I’m trying to say is before you write that book or as you’re writing it or if you’ve finished the book, put a beautiful intention under it for other people and feel it, believe it. Just don’t say the words. It’s almost like a little prayer that goes over the book. I have to say it goes on and on, the serendipity of things that have assisted the book to be in the hands that they are now.
Tim Knox: It’s interesting that you say that because I’ve had other authors tell me similar things. If you write a book with good intentions, those good intentions will come back to you and if that’s your motivation for writing the book rather than writing the book for monetary gain – we all want to make money from our books but having that good intention as the underlying baseline of your book is really a good thing. What you send out comes back.
Karen Kondazian: Well you know I believe serendipity is an energy. I have a kind of philosophy on life that we’re all energetic beings, that we’re really one. We kind of radiate what it is without people even realizing they get what it is that you… that it’s for them, that it’s going to help them maybe. Now the book can be a mystery. It can be a detective story. It doesn’t have to be anything like some great non-fiction how-to book. Again, as an actor I do that. I learned this from being an actor. Every character that you play has an intention under it. It has a theme of why… if you look at your life. If we all look at our lives there’s a theme in our lives over and over again. There is something that makes us do the choices we’ve made or are going to make. It’s interesting to look at your life that way and your book that way.
Tim Knox: You are such an accomplished actress, won a lot of awards, won the attention of Tennessee Williams. Were there things that you learned as an actress that you used as a writer?
Karen Kondazian: Oh my God, yes. Being a member of the Actors Studio we learned special techniques for acting and one of them is something called sense memory. I use that a lot in my writing. I’ll explain what it is. So an actor needs to express loss. He’s just lost his child and in his work he needs to express that. So to conjure up the real feelings, because we are athletes of the emotions, you must truly access that feeling in yourself, the feeling that most people push way, way down. How you do that is through an exercise where you think of the time that you’ve lost something painfully and you think about the smell, what it looked like, the sounds, the taste in your mouth – all the senses – what you were wearing, what the clothes felt like on your body. If you do it truthfully enough and you do it with a strong imagination, your feelings will come up. I did that in my writing. As the feeling, for instance, came up I would write then through it. I would write the scene. Now things and words would come that I would never think of otherwise. Then later of course there’s a lot of extra… how do I say it? It has nothing really to do with what’s going on in your story but there are kernels and beautiful phrases and images and it helped me a lot. That’s why there are places in the book that I’ve been told move people.
Tim Knox: Again given your background in theater and acting, as you wrote the book did it almost appear to be a movie in your head? Did you see the movie aspect as you wrote the words?
Karen Kondazian: That’s interesting. Yes it was a kind of movie but the point is in movies you see images but writers have to out of the images create with the words those images. What I’m talking about is to take a feeling and to transcribe it into something that clearly moves someone that is universal hopefully. I just would like to say one thing about the acting and that is my biggest suggestion in this interview with you for the writers out there is for them to take an acting class. Even if you’re afraid to get up at least just sit and listen and audit it. It would be invaluable for you.
Tim Knox: So your advice is for them to take an acting class to learn how to tap into these emotions that actors do in order to become better writers.
Karen Kondazian: Yes. Find in your city, in every city there is some acting teacher or there is a community theater. Put yourself through that. Experience it. As I say, a writer’s an athlete of the emotions took, as an actor is.
Tim Knox: We’re talking to Karen Kondazian, the author of The Whip, a wonderful book about a woman who disguises herself as a man in the 1800s, rode on top of a stagecoach. Karen, this book just lends itself to film. Are there any plans in the work to bring this to the movies?
Karen Kondazian: Well right now we’re hoping that the book will be a movie. It’s possible. Fate and serendipity – we’ll see.
Tim Knox: If a movie is made out of the book, who would be your choice to play Charley?
Karen Kondazian: Are you talking about dreams right now?
Tim Knox: Sure. If you could cast anyone for the part of Charley who would it be?
Karen Kondazian: Jennifer Lawrence.
Tim Knox: I could see her in the part.
Karen Kondazian: She could start at the age of 18 and then she could be aged through it and also she has that kind of feisty tall and lean. What’s so interesting is I heard on a little interview once that she said she’d like to play a man in a movie.
Tim Knox: This could be her opportunity thanks to you.
Karen Kondazian: It’s a long way from wish to it happening but nonetheless, to answer your question I am working on another book. I’m one of those people that don’t really talk about it much until it’s almost finished. It is a fictional memoir. Have you ever heard of a fictional memoir?
Tim Knox: As a matter of fact I have.
Karen Kondazian: Okay so that’s kind of what it is.
Tim Knox: So this is a fictional memoir of your life.
Karen Kondazian: Yes and I call it fictionalized because I don’t want people to know what is and what isn’t because I’ve had so many interesting real people in my life. When I was a girl I dated King Hussein of Jordan and when I was older I was engaged to a man named Lex Barker, who was Tarzan in the movies. I was dialogue coach for the little midget, Hervé Villechaize for Fantasy Island.
Tim Knox: Did you teach him the phrase that he’s so famous for?
Karen Kondazian: The plane! The plane! That one? So you know I want to put all these people in it but I need to do it in a fictionalized way.
Tim Knox: So it’s not the classic Hollywood tell all. It’s a fictionalized account of your life.
Karen Kondazian: Well first of all you have to be famous for that and nobody cares unless you’re Jennifer Lawrence or something in this day and age. Do you remember Eat, Pray Love? I said I don’t like to talk about my book but if we’re going to talk about it, I want it to be a book that helps people. It’s not just stories about somebody’s life but the stories are there because I believe that if you want something and I don’t get it it’s because you’re protected. If you look back on your life you’ll see that you were and that’s what my book’s about.
Tim Knox: Karen Kondazian, this has been a pleasure. Tell the folks where they can find your book. Do you have a website? Is it on Amazon?
Karen Kondazian: Both. It’s on Amazon and Barnes & Noble and I have a website, Kondazian.com. It’s probably better to look up The Whip since Kondazian is a little hard to spell.
Tim Knox: Not to worry. We’ll put up links to your website as well as the book on Amazon for those folks who cannot spell Kondazian.
Karen Kondazian: I just want to say something, Tim. You are wonderful. You’re a wonderful interviewer. I feel like we just had lunch together.
Tim Knox: That’s so sweet of you to say. I am only as good as those I interview. Speaking of lunch, shall we order dessert?
Karen Kondazian: Yes. I just wanted to say thank you. It was lovely.
Tim Knox: Again, that’s so sweet of you to say. I truly enjoyed this. I hope we can talk about. Karen Kondazian, author of The Whip, a fascinating book of a young lady who lived her life disguised as a man in the Old West. Karen, we will put up links on the website and we hope to talk to you again very soon.
Karen Kondazian: Take care and God Bless.